Movin’ the goalposts

Movin’ the goalposts
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Back in the day, when he was still interested in positioning himself as a Republican moderate, Senator John McCain used to say that he was not necessarily opposed per se to repealing America’s so-called “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” law — which forbids homosexuals from serving openly in the US armed forces — only that he felt it personally inappropriate for a measly politician like him to initiate such a reform. If the army leadership came to him and said, “Senator, repeal it,” however, then obviously he’d get cracking right away. Such respect for the military has Senator McCain.

Problem is, the military leadership did come to him and say just that. Earlier this year, during Senate hearings on the future of DADT, Robert Gates, the Secretary of Defense, Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and General David Petraeus, commander of the Afghanistan war and former commander of the Iraq war, all testified that the ban on openly gay servicemen had outlived its usefulness, and should be abolished, post-haste.

That’s all well and good for you guys to say, said McCain, who was fighting a tough primary battle for reelection, but now I want to hear from the soldiers. Asking the troops on the ground for their opinion on military policy seems to contradict the rigid hierarchy governing military service, but whatever. The Pentagon commissioned a massive survey of how individual soldiers would react to a theoretical DADT repeal, and the results, revealed to the Armed Services Committee — which McCain is head Republican on — were fairly mild.

Obviously some of the manly-men in the US armed forces don’t like the idea of showering next to gays, etc, but such views remain a minority. 70% of all servicemen interviewed said they think overturning DADT will have a neutral-to-positive effect on troop morale and cohesion, and 80 to 90% of soldiers who had actually served alongside a fellow officer known to be gay stated that their coworker’s sexuality had little effect on anything.

McCain is still not satisfied, however, and will still not support a repeal — and most Senate Republicans seem to be following his lead. Using increasingly tortured logic, the Senator has raised vague concerns about the Pentagon survey’s “methodology,” and some of the polling data from the Marines (who have emerged as the least gay-accepting faction of the armed forces). But holding up a policy reform on these grounds is obviously a long ways removed from respecting the wishes of the “military leadership.”

It’d be nice to believe there is actually some high principle motivating the GOP’s constant stonewalling on “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” that goes beyond mere pandering to a voter base that is personally distressful of homosexuality. But the evidence is becoming scarce.

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  1. Psudo

    Anyone remember what the policy was before Don't Ask Don't Tell?

  2. JGrizzle

    Yes. No gays period. They were allowed to ask, and if they were gay they would be refused. If it was found out later that they were lying, they could be court-martialed for it.

  3. jules

    Yeees, because providing a unique number to every soldier being polled on this issue is a perfect way to assure anonymity and it would never be used against you when it came time for promotions.
    It has nothing to do with homophobia and everything to do with unit cohesion, especially on the front lines when you're living about as close as heterosexual men can live with each other. The introduction of a sexual element to a male bonding experience would never ever affect that unit in any way. If who you are in the military becomes more about your sexuality than about you being part of a collective, its going to introduce alienation and resentment.
    Gays have served in militaries around the world across history, but western christian civilization is built on heterosexual monogamy. Unless the radicals can change that culture, introducing openly gay troops on the front line will inevitably affect the military situation. Not so much if gay patriots are willing to serve in support roles.

  4. Alex

    This behavior should honestly surprise nobody. Anyone who paid attention to John McCain starting in 2000 should know that even by political standards, he is a uniquely self-serving politician who believes in nothing past what will garner him personal power. There is no position he will not sacrifice in the name of electoral expediency.

  5. Jake Hughes

    OK, I'm a US Soldier, have been for 7 years, will be for my whole career. I'll say this as plainly as I can: I am a conservative Christian, and I have NO PROBLEM with gays. From the research I have done, I can't tell wether it's "Natural" or some kind of learned thing, ie "Nuture". BUT, from what I can tell, it doesn't matter. You can't change it. I think God smiles on ANY loving, monogamous relationship. That said, I personally think we SHOULD repeal it. I don't have an issue, and most of the people I work with wouldn't either. BUT! And this is a huge, Gigantic, Ghetto-booty sized BUT here. I am a professional soldier, and I will say THIS as clearly as I can: THE MISSION COMES FIRST!

  6. Jake Hughes

    If there is even the SLIGHTEST chance that repealing will affect unit cohesion with our troops on the front lines, then we shouldn't do it. I've been to Iraq twice, and I can say with full confidence that on the line, you live and die by the trust you have in your battle buddies. And if the guys on that line are not as evolved as the rest of us, then for now, tough sh*t. Once we seriously reduce our combat load, then we can repeal. But for now, I apologize to Gays everywhere.

  7. Jake Hughes

    But think of it like this: If you REALLY want to serve, if you hear your nations call that bad, and you feel like you want to live by the Seven Army Values, then you should understand this. The mission comes first. And if the Army told me that religion has no place on the battlefield, then I would hide my cross tattoo and pray in private, because that's what the mission required. I hope this makes sense to yall. Sorry for the m,ulti-post rant. I feel real passionate about this! lol ARMY STRONG! HOOAH!!

  8. Johnny

    The excuses are getting very thin to call it anything but homophobia.

    To recap: military leaders and a survey of the troops are both pretty conclusively saying unit cohesion will not be a significant issue if DADT is repealed.

    I am positive that there are military folks that will not react very well to find out a colleague is gay. Such is life.

    But to flip a comment Jake Hughes made below on its head: if the military brass say that being gay will no longer be an issue in the army, then those people should learn to accept, if not approve, of gays in the military, for "the mission comes first".

    (I will also point out that many other armies, such as Canada's, have had openly gay troops for years, and they are doing fantastic work in places like Afghanistan.)

  9. Geryon

    Yes but the thing is that would be saying no to religion not to, say, Judaism. Personally I would be perfectly alright with don't ask don't tell IF it also applied to heterosexuality, bisexuality, and asexuality. If a solider was not allowed to talk about their sexual orientation at all I would accept it.

  10. Johnny

    You are missing half the issue of DADT though. It's not just about people keeping their jobs, it's about them being open about the person they are.

    Also: you want to tell soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq that they're not allowed to have pictures of their family? For surely there's no more fragrant display of one's sexuality than a picture of one's wife and kids.

  11. jjmccullough

    First, thanks for your service.

    I agree with you in theory that unit cohesion is a goal of utmost importance, but let's also be realistic. Imagine if a unit was full of strong, evangelical Christians, and one atheist who would never shut up about what a big load of crap organized religion is. Would that help cohesion? Probably not, but it's perfectly legal.

  12. @TheRyanThompson

    Lifting the ban on open homosexual service has not impaired troops from America's principal allies, Australia, Britain, and Canada, from carrying out their missions in Afghanistan. Americans seem to have no problem with integrated units fighting alongside their soldiers in combat.

  13. Steven

    DADT actually bans servicemembers from being married to, marrying, or attempting to marry a member of the same sex. So if it applied to heterosexuals, there would be no soldiers with wives. Problem solved!

  14. Geryon

    Let me put it this way, I would still take issue with DADT if it were applied to other sexualities as well but I would take less issue with it than I do now. And I am fully aware of the aspect of pictures of wives and kids, that is one reason I think it should be removed, a solider in combat situation should be fully allowed to talk about the significan other no matter if they are male or female.

  15. Paul

    I personally disagree with homosexuality, but the arguments against allowing gays in the military (distractions, unit cohesion, etc.) apply equally if not more so to having females in the military. We've allowed females for ages, and any loss in efficiency is negligible, if it even exists. For cripe's sake, McCain, let them fight.

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  17. David Liao

    In fact, I recall it helping unit cohesion with the Ancient Greeks a bit.

  18. Frank

    The real issue is, we ALREADY have plenty of gay soldiers fighting in Afghanistan. It's just that right now, they have to lie and hide the truth of who they are (hardly squares with the values of our military.)

    They are not able to confide in any support personnel. If they tell their doctor or a therapist they are gay, this admission gets reported. They have to wall themselves off entirely.

    The point of eliminating DADT isn't so a bunch of poofs can strut around and play grabass. People who are fancy or soft, gay or straight, don't do well in the military, and really have no desire to be a part of it. But that's not every gay guy, and I think that's what a lot of people who haven't really ever been exposed to (openly) gay people have trouble comprehending, particularly older people. To them, gays are limp-wristed and prissy; when you don't actually interact and know real gay people, you accept the stereotypes as fact.

  19. PTBO

    Esp. with the Spartans. The felt that best (and most cohesive) army was an army of lovers. Thats why old men would be paired up with young boys. They felt that there is no stronger bond then the bond between lovers.

    So maybe if they really care about unit cohesion then they should start out a couple test pedarest units and try to copy the example of our western civilization forebearers.

  20. Iokobos

    Last I checked, women did not fight on the front lines. They are kept in support and non-combat roles, unless things have changed but I doubt it.

    That pretty much delineates the soldier opinion too.

    Non-com who believe it should be repealed: 70%
    Support personnel who believe it should be repealed: 50%
    Front line troops who believe it should be repealed: 30%

    (By support personnel I mean logistics, medical, intel etc who stay near the front lines but do not engage in fighting unless ambushed, etc)

  21. Iokobos

    No one is forcing them to enlist.

    When they choose to enlist, they are told to sign a contract that states (and I parphrase) "I will not engage in homosexual activity while I am enlisted in the military." They are not asked if they are gay, but they are not led blindly into a vague situation either.

    As a heterosexual who wanted to join the Air Force but they wouldn't take me because my eyesight wasn't good enough and I have a heart condition, I can't really feel too sorry for the gays that get in then break their contract. They at least get the opportunity to serve their country, and they know the rules going in.

  22. Les

    Nevermind that the rules suck.

  23. PTBO

    For eligbility of front-line female soldiers- that depends on which unit and which army.

    As I know, only two countries: Canada and Australia have no gender restrictions on any military occupation. (For both countries the last occupation to be made open to women was submarine duty). I believe two front-line female Canadian infantry soldiers have been killed as a result of hostile action while in Afghanistan.

    As for the States; there are front-line female helicopter pilots ( and have been for 20 years) and thing is- during the Iraq war pretty much everyone was on the "front lines". Hence there was a large component of fighting done by National Guard units and Transportation units which had considerable numbers of women. I seem to remember Jessica Lynch's transportation unit was around one third female.

  24. Direct

    PTBO, there are several Australian Defence occupations that are not available to women, namely:

    Ground Defence Officer (Air Force)
    Airfield Defence Guard (Air Force)
    Clearance Diver (Navy)
    All Royal Australian Infantry Corps (Army)
    All Royal Australian Armoured Corps (Army)
    Royal Australian Artillery Corps Field Artillery units* (Army)
    Combat Engineer* (Army)

    * Women may serve within Surveillance Aircraft Operator, Weapon Locating Radar, Artillery – Air Defender or related officer employments.

    * Posting opportunities for female Combat Engineers are limited to Construction Squadrons and Topographical Units.

    Source: http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/recruitmentCentre/canIJoin/ageAndGender/

    Given that, you might want to confirm your information with respect to the Canadian Defence Forces.

  25. Iokobos

    Rules in general suck, because they tell people what they can and cannot do without penalty.

  26. Iokobos

    Lynch was a supply clerk in a unit-supply convoy when she was captured. Her convoy was staffed by her maintenance company and a combat support group. Ergo, support personnel.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch

  27. Iokobos

    Based on that why don't we let the men and women mingle and have orgies?

  28. PTBO

    Direct,
    Seems like a solid case to me. I must have seen the accpetance of Australian women into the submarine ranks and misread the article. "Due to a Commonwealth law excluding women from serving in direct combat roles, there are a small number of positions which they cannot apply for. " Seems like bit of an lame excuse to me- Canada seems to get around that rule. Though it could explain why 67% of UK Army occupations are open to women while 95% of the US military occupations are available to women.

    I guess Canada is more unique then I thought as it is the only country where women are eligible for every military occupation.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/wom

    Norway is close I suppose- only elite special forces units are off limits to women- not the case with Canada's JTF2 :
    http://www.jtf2.forces.gc.ca/mrj-mcf/index-eng.as

  29. TheDagda

    Being a former soldier, hand having known my fair share of gays, from outright Queens to guys who are every day dudes that just happen to like dudes…the idea that being gay makes you some sort of hedonistic moron that will only think with his prick when surrounded by other men on the firing line is laughable.

    Being gay is just that, you like other guys/gals. It has as much bearing on whether or not a straight guy can fight alongside a woman (In which case sheer ingrained chivalry is more of the problem, and I know of at least one female MP who won the Silver Star for kicking the crap out of a terrorist ambush nigh singlehandedly)

    HISTORY even proves it wrong. The Spartans, the most feared badasses of ancient Greece believed that love made soldiers fight better. These were guys who lived in barracks al the time without their wives. And then there is The Sacred Band, a Theban army unit of 150 homosexual couples. They fought to the DEATH against Alexander the Great so well that he made a monument to them after his victory.

    Being gay has no impact on the mission. The mission is and foremost always First, yes, but we're talking about ingrained military discipline that is nigh beaten into you during basic training.

    So in the end what it amounts too is if the individual soldier has the self-discipline to do his duty. I served with many heterosexual soldiers that I would not be so sure of that of, so why not let gays have their chance?

  30. Cody Cromarty

    Homophobia is the only reason for any banning of gays from anything. To my knowledge, there have been absolutely zero reported incidents of gay soldiers in any nation's military harassing other soldiers. It's the exact same thing as the sexism that makes female soldiers so much less common or even unseen in various jobs: archaic, outdated values from a bygone era where intolerance was the word of the day.

    We no longer discriminate against black soldiers or female soldiers, when the thought of a black man fighting alongside a woman would have been absolutely unthinkable to the brass of the 1940s. And yet homosexuals still face the exact same discrimination. We treat Muhammad Ali like a brave man for refusing to be drafted by a country that discriminated against his kind, and yet we never hear about how amazing gay men are for standing up to the military's ancient bigotry.

    If an outed homosexual saves your life, does that make the rescue any less worthy of praise? According to John McCain, yes it does.

  31. Direct

    PTBO, in your quote “Commonwealth” most likely refers to the Commonwealth of Australia, rather than the Commonwealth of Nations, meaning that the Australian Defence Forces ban on Women in these combat positions is based on Australian Federal law rather than any inherited British Common law.

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